Advanced Strategy Discussion

2005.12.22

[7:26:24 PM] Back from the game [7:26:30 PM] <Charmides> yay [7:26:36 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> I was worried about a comm rush [7:26:43 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> that was the reason for defenses [7:26:47 PM] <IownU> well... [7:26:50 PM] <Charmides> im usually aggressive. but then they eventually stop

             my front line at their base, kill it, and i got nothing left

[7:26:51 PM] <IownU> that makes no sense [7:26:51 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> but maybe rockos would have been better [7:26:56 PM] <IownU> if you're afraid of a com rush [7:27:02 PM] <IownU> why build stationary defense [7:27:09 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> requires less micro [7:27:16 PM] <IownU> ah, so you're lazy [7:27:19 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> heh [7:27:23 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> no, I'm busy [7:27:32 PM] <Charmides> grow another hand [7:27:35 PM] <Charmides> its pretty useful [7:27:37 PM] <IownU> a move order doesn't take up much time [7:27:41 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> or maybe not as micro effecient as other players [7:27:59 PM] <IownU> you know how to spread units on a line, right? [7:28:06 PM] <Charmides> drag right mouse [7:28:09 PM] <IownU> yeah [7:28:18 PM] <IownU> just put them on one [7:28:24 PM] <IownU> and when you need to pull back [7:28:27 PM] <IownU> use that same order [7:28:32 PM] <Charmides> i saw you doin a lot of that with noize [7:28:34 PM] <IownU> so units won't walk in eachothers way [7:28:37 PM] <IownU> keep on firing [7:28:42 PM] <IownU> yup [7:28:43 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> I do that quita a bit too [7:28:49 PM] <IownU> so they're not in each others line of fire [7:28:58 PM] <IownU> when enemy units walk in [7:29:02 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> it is especially important with rockos and jethros [7:29:04 PM] <IownU> they're usually clustered [7:29:10 PM] <IownU> so less than 50% of them can actually fire [7:29:24 PM] <IownU> if you have 10 units spread out [7:29:30 PM] <IownU> and your opponent has 15 clustered [7:29:34 PM] <IownU> your 10 will win [7:29:40 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> that line order made rockos and jethros 200% more effective [7:29:49 PM] <IownU> as long as you have all 10 attack 1 enemy unit [7:30:18 PM] <Charmides> can you walk and focus fire at the same time? [7:30:42 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> maybe I should focus more [7:30:49 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> I tend to do stuff all over the map [7:30:54 PM] <IownU> you're better off killing an enemy unit every 2 seconds,

             than have all of them fire at different units for 20-30 seconds

[7:31:11 PM] <IownU> i don't think there's a simple command for that Charmides [7:31:36 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> what I need to do is get more complex in my build order [7:31:42 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> longer chains [7:31:47 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> so I can micro units more [7:31:54 PM] <Charmides> i need to stop losing [7:31:56 PM] <Charmides> im not really sure how though [7:32:02 PM] <IownU> i usually spend 50% of my time on giving cons/plants

            orders

[7:32:03 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> I win a lot [7:32:06 PM] <Charmides> i dont [7:32:07 PM] <Charmides> lol [7:32:15 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> I spen onver 50% for sure [7:32:21 PM] <Charmides> i get too easily distracted just being harassed at

            the beginning

[7:32:24 PM] <IownU> and once i have a units selected i give it 20+ orders

            minimum

[7:32:24 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> but you can never win too much [7:32:31 PM] <IownU> especiall on maps like comet catcher [7:32:41 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> 20+, wow [7:32:44 PM] <Charmides> like what units [7:32:46 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> I will have to try that [7:32:52 PM] <Charmides> how can you give like your attacking force 20+

            commands

[7:32:56 PM] <IownU> i just have 3-4 cons build rows of solars [7:33:01 PM] <IownU> you can't [7:33:05 PM] <Charmides> yeah but a row of solar is just 1 command [7:33:14 PM] <Charmides> i dont see where the other 19 are coming from [7:33:16 PM] <IownU> 1 command, 20 orders [7:33:20 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> cons need long order chains [7:33:36 PM] <IownU> yeah, but you also have to watch them, in case you need

            to change the orders

[7:33:39 PM] <Charmides> i can understand teh con veh orders part [7:33:41 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> idle cons = inferior economy in 5 minutes [7:33:43 PM] <IownU> no point in suicidal cons [7:34:00 PM] <IownU> u saw that game vs noize [7:34:00 PM] <Charmides> i hate 1v1 on like comet catcher though [7:34:06 PM] <Charmides> way too many weak points at all times [7:34:06 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> also, metal and energy tores should be close to 0 if

            possible

[7:34:09 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> stores [7:34:16 PM] <Charmides> i get too distracted and then they run in lightning

            tanks at another point and i lose my base

[7:34:20 PM] <IownU> which was a fine demonstration of all the orders i gave

            my units

[7:34:43 PM] <IownU> yup, metal in storage is no good [7:34:47 PM] <IownU> put it to work [7:35:08 PM] <Charmides> bah [7:35:16 PM] <IownU> on comet, i usually have 10-15 cons in the 1st 12

            minutes at work

[7:35:21 PM] <IownU> increasing during the game [7:35:23 PM] <Charmides> when i played 1v1 on comet i kept getting tanks

            running rampant behidn my lines and i couldnt stop them

[7:35:31 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> the best training for spring is an econ degree [7:35:48 PM] <IownU> also, you can build stuff smart [7:35:51 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> civ and ta are excellent preparation for college level

            economics

[7:35:53 PM] <IownU> mexes are weak [7:35:57 PM] <IownU> shield them with solars [7:36:33 PM] <IownU> or build a row of solars as if they were dt [7:36:41 PM] <Charmides> and i get harassed too easily at beginning. i was

            suprised how little of that noize did during your game

[7:36:42 PM] <IownU> so they shield a flank of your base [7:36:50 PM] <Charmides> the other warc kid i played kept sending weasles all

            over the place

[7:36:52 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> that works great until the big level 2 tanks run 'em over [7:36:55 PM] <IownU> so you can focus stationary defense on 1 side, and mobile

            on the other

[7:37:16 PM] <IownU> i'm talking about the 1st 20 minutes of the battle [7:37:19 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> yeah [7:37:21 PM] <IownU> after that all bets are off [7:37:22 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> I do the same [7:37:22 PM] <IownU> :P [7:37:41 PM] <Charmides> after that is where i get owned [7:37:45 PM] <IownU> on MH in example, i build mexes along the edge or a wall,

            and a row of solars in front

[7:37:49 PM] <IownU> shielding my mexes [7:38:07 PM] <IownU> so in case a raid is succesfull, i still have my metal [7:38:11 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> these things seem basic, but many 100 hr players do not so

            them

[7:38:13 PM] <Charmides> mh? [7:38:16 PM] <Charmides> oh [7:38:17 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> metal heck [7:38:19 PM] <Charmides> i dont play metal maps anymore [7:38:21 PM] <Charmides> too annoying [7:38:24 PM] <IownU> allowing me to rebuild in seconds [7:38:25 PM] <Charmides> i get bored when games lag [7:38:30 PM] <IownU> lag sux [7:38:46 PM] <IownU> but the fault most people make is that they stop building

            economy at a certain point

[7:38:49 PM] <Charmides> and im back home right now for winter break and my

            parents only have dialup back here :(

[7:38:55 PM] <IownU> i NEVER stop increasing my reso [7:39:04 PM] <IownU> lol [7:39:04 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> you and folke [7:39:05 PM] <IownU> that sux [7:39:08 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> and SJ [7:39:12 PM] <Charmides> well i tend to stop building economy because im too

            busy pushing the enemy line and want all my resources for that

[7:39:28 PM] <Charmides> and of course i fail [7:39:30 PM] <Charmides> bah [7:39:30 PM] <Charmides> lol [7:39:40 PM] <IownU> an adv kbot + 3 necro's tend to build fusion damn fast... [7:39:44 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> that works only if your opponent does the same [7:39:52 PM] <Charmides> does hosting replays work now? I could just show you

            my stupid replay against min3mat

[7:39:58 PM] <Charmides> instead of renaming all myy problems on it [7:40:04 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> if you opponent works on economy and you don't, in 5 min he

            will walk through you

[7:40:26 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> or maybe 10 [7:40:34 PM] <IownU> if you can't stop his attack, yes [7:40:41 PM] <IownU> if you can, you'll push him back real fast [7:40:46 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> I tend to play smaller maps [7:40:51 PM] <Charmides> watch my replay and tell me what my problems are? lol [7:40:59 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> so my long game econ skills are weak [7:41:01 PM] <IownU> HLT's tend to rip most lvl 1 stuff to piece real fast [7:41:23 PM] <Charmides> ill take that as a no :( [7:41:34 PM] <IownU> does everyone has to have the replay for playback, or

            only the host?

[7:41:39 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> I should post this conversation on the wiki... [7:41:43 PM] <Charmides> i think only host [7:41:47 PM] <Charmides> i think i just transfer it to you somehows [7:41:48 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> if y'al have no objections [7:41:51 PM] <Charmides> uh no [7:41:54 PM] <IownU> i don't [7:41:55 PM] <Charmides> unless you edit out everything i said [7:41:56 PM] <Charmides> lol [7:42:00 PM] <Charmides> i dont want to be on wiki [7:42:09 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> if I remove your name? [7:42:22 PM] <Charmides> i spose. RD was the one saying anything important

            anyways

[7:42:27 PM] <IownU> there's only 1 rule in TA [7:42:28 PM] <Charmides> just delete me from all of it  :) [7:42:37 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> the questions are important for context [7:42:37 PM] <IownU> DON"T STOP BUILDING [7:42:44 PM] <Charmides> gah dammit foe [7:42:45 PM] <Charmides> lol [7:42:47 PM] <Charmides> fine whatever [7:42:51 PM] <IownU> and for that, you need as many cons as you can afford [7:42:57 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> I'l replace your name with something else [7:43:02 PM] <Charmides> yay [7:43:03 PM] <IownU> nerd1 :P [7:43:07 PM] <FoeOfTheBee[FD]> heh [7:43:11 PM] <Charmides> :( [7:43:12 PM] <Charmides> lol

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