Advanced Strategy Discussion

2005.12.22

[7:26:24 PM] Back from the game
[7:26:30 PM] <Charmides> yay
[7:26:36 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> I was worried about a comm rush
[7:26:43 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> that was the reason for defenses
[7:26:47 PM] <IownU> well...
[7:26:50 PM] <Charmides> im usually aggressive.  but then they eventually stop
              my front line at their base, kill it, and i got nothing left
[7:26:51 PM] <IownU> that makes no sense
[7:26:51 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> but maybe rockos would have been better
[7:26:56 PM] <IownU> if you're afraid of a com rush
[7:27:02 PM] <IownU> why build stationary defense
[7:27:09 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> requires less micro
[7:27:16 PM] <IownU> ah, so you're lazy
[7:27:19 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> heh
[7:27:23 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> no, I'm busy
[7:27:32 PM] <Charmides> grow another hand
[7:27:35 PM] <Charmides> its pretty useful
[7:27:37 PM] <IownU> a move order doesn't take up much time
[7:27:41 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> or maybe not as micro effecient as other players
[7:27:59 PM] <IownU> you know how to spread units on a line, right?
[7:28:06 PM] <Charmides> drag right mouse
[7:28:09 PM] <IownU> yeah
[7:28:18 PM] <IownU> just put them on one
[7:28:24 PM] <IownU> and when you need to pull back
[7:28:27 PM] <IownU> use that same order
[7:28:32 PM] <Charmides> i saw you doin a lot of that with noize
[7:28:34 PM] <IownU> so units won't walk in eachothers way
[7:28:37 PM] <IownU> keep on firing
[7:28:42 PM] <IownU> yup
[7:28:43 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> I do that quita a bit too
[7:28:49 PM] <IownU> so they're not in each others line of fire
[7:28:58 PM] <IownU> when enemy units walk in
[7:29:02 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> it is especially important with rockos and jethros
[7:29:04 PM] <IownU> they're usually clustered
[7:29:10 PM] <IownU> so less than 50% of them can actually fire
[7:29:24 PM] <IownU> if you have 10 units spread out
[7:29:30 PM] <IownU> and your opponent has 15 clustered
[7:29:34 PM] <IownU> your 10 will win
[7:29:40 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> that line order made rockos and jethros 200% more effective
[7:29:49 PM] <IownU> as long as you have all 10 attack 1 enemy unit
[7:30:18 PM] <Charmides> can you walk and focus fire at the same time?
[7:30:42 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> maybe I should focus more
[7:30:49 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> I tend to do stuff all over the map
[7:30:54 PM] <IownU> you're better off killing an enemy unit every 2 seconds,
              than have all of them fire at different units for 20-30 seconds
[7:31:11 PM] <IownU> i don't think there's a simple command for that Charmides
[7:31:36 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> what I need to do is get more complex in my build order
[7:31:42 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> longer chains
[7:31:47 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> so I can micro units more
[7:31:54 PM] <Charmides> i need to stop losing
[7:31:56 PM] <Charmides> im not really sure how though
[7:32:02 PM] <IownU> i usually spend 50% of my time on giving cons/plants
             orders
[7:32:03 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> I win a lot
[7:32:06 PM] <Charmides> i dont
[7:32:07 PM] <Charmides> lol
[7:32:15 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> I spen onver 50% for sure
[7:32:21 PM] <Charmides> i get too easily distracted just being harassed at
             the beginning
[7:32:24 PM] <IownU> and once i have a units selected i give it 20+ orders
             minimum
[7:32:24 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> but you can never win too much
[7:32:31 PM] <IownU> especiall on maps like comet catcher
[7:32:41 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> 20+, wow
[7:32:44 PM] <Charmides> like what units
[7:32:46 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> I will have to try that
[7:32:52 PM] <Charmides> how can you give like your attacking force 20+
             commands
[7:32:56 PM] <IownU> i just have 3-4 cons build rows of solars
[7:33:01 PM] <IownU> you can't
[7:33:05 PM] <Charmides> yeah but a row of solar is just 1 command
[7:33:14 PM] <Charmides> i dont see where the other 19 are coming from
[7:33:16 PM] <IownU> 1 command, 20 orders
[7:33:20 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> cons need long order chains
[7:33:36 PM] <IownU> yeah, but you also have to watch them, in case you need
             to change the orders
[7:33:39 PM] <Charmides> i can understand teh con veh orders part
[7:33:41 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> idle cons = inferior economy in 5 minutes
[7:33:43 PM] <IownU> no point in suicidal cons
[7:34:00 PM] <IownU> u saw that game vs noize
[7:34:00 PM] <Charmides> i hate 1v1 on like comet catcher though
[7:34:06 PM] <Charmides> way too many weak points at all times
[7:34:06 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> also, metal and energy tores should be close to 0 if possible
[7:34:09 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> stores
[7:34:16 PM] <Charmides> i get too distracted and then they run in lightning
             tanks at another point and i lose my base
[7:34:20 PM] <IownU> which was a fine demonstration of all the orders i gave
             my units
[7:34:43 PM] <IownU> yup, metal in storage is no good
[7:34:47 PM] <IownU> put it to work
[7:35:08 PM] <Charmides> bah
[7:35:16 PM] <IownU> on comet, i usually have 10-15 cons in the 1st 12
             minutes at work
[7:35:21 PM] <IownU> increasing during the game
[7:35:23 PM] <Charmides> when i played 1v1 on comet i kept getting tanks 
             running rampant behidn my lines and i couldnt stop them
[7:35:31 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> the best training for spring is an econ degree
[7:35:48 PM] <IownU> also, you can build stuff smart
[7:35:51 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> civ and ta are excellent preparation for college level economics
[7:35:53 PM] <IownU> mexes are weak
[7:35:57 PM] <IownU> shield them with solars
[7:36:33 PM] <IownU> or build a row of solars as if they were dt
[7:36:41 PM] <Charmides> and i get harassed too easily at beginning.  i was
             suprised how little of that noize did during your game
[7:36:42 PM] <IownU> so they shield a flank of your base
[7:36:50 PM] <Charmides> the other warc kid i played kept sending weasles all
             over the place
[7:36:52 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> that works great until the big level 2 tanks run 'em over
[7:36:55 PM] <IownU> so you can focus stationary defense on 1 side, and mobile
             on the other
[7:37:16 PM] <IownU> i'm talking about the 1st 20 minutes of the battle
[7:37:19 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> yeah
[7:37:21 PM] <IownU> after that all bets are off
[7:37:22 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> I do the same
[7:37:22 PM] <IownU> :P
[7:37:41 PM] <Charmides> after that is where i get owned
[7:37:45 PM] <IownU> on MH in example, i build mexes along the edge or a wall,
             and a row of solars in front
[7:37:49 PM] <IownU> shielding my mexes
[7:38:07 PM] <IownU> so in case a raid is succesfull, i still have my metal
[7:38:11 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> these things seem basic, but many 100 hr players do not so them
[7:38:13 PM] <Charmides> mh?
[7:38:16 PM] <Charmides> oh
[7:38:17 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> metal heck
[7:38:19 PM] <Charmides> i dont play metal maps anymore
[7:38:21 PM] <Charmides> too annoying
[7:38:24 PM] <IownU> allowing me to rebuild in seconds
[7:38:25 PM] <Charmides> i get bored when games lag
[7:38:30 PM] <IownU> lag sux
[7:38:46 PM] <IownU> but the fault most people make is that they stop building
             economy at a certain point
[7:38:49 PM] <Charmides> and im back home right now for winter break and my
             parents only have dialup back here :(
[7:38:55 PM] <IownU> i NEVER stop increasing my reso
[7:39:04 PM] <IownU> lol
[7:39:04 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> you and folke
[7:39:05 PM] <IownU> that sux
[7:39:08 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> and SJ
[7:39:12 PM] <Charmides> well i tend to stop building economy because im too
             busy pushing the enemy line and want all my resources for that
[7:39:28 PM] <Charmides> and of course i fail
[7:39:30 PM] <Charmides> bah
[7:39:30 PM] <Charmides> lol
[7:39:40 PM] <IownU> an adv kbot + 3 necro's tend to build fusion damn fast...
[7:39:44 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> that works only if your opponent does the same
[7:39:52 PM] <Charmides> does hosting replays work now? I could just show you
             my stupid replay against min3mat
[7:39:58 PM] <Charmides> instead of renaming all myy problems on it
[7:40:04 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> if you opponent works on economy and you don't, in 5 min he will walk
      through you
[7:40:26 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> or maybe 10
[7:40:34 PM] <IownU> if you can't stop his attack, yes
[7:40:41 PM] <IownU> if you can, you'll push him back real fast
[7:40:46 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> I tend to play smaller maps
[7:40:51 PM] <Charmides> watch my replay and tell me what my problems are? lol
[7:40:59 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> so my long game econ skills are weak
[7:41:01 PM] <IownU> HLT's tend to rip most lvl 1 stuff to piece real fast
[7:41:23 PM] <Charmides> ill take that as a no :(
[7:41:34 PM] <IownU> does everyone has to have the replay for playback, or
             only the host?
[7:41:39 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> I should post this conversation on the wiki...
[7:41:43 PM] <Charmides> i think only host
[7:41:47 PM] <Charmides> i think i just transfer it to you somehows
[7:41:48 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> if y'al have no objections
[7:41:51 PM] <Charmides> uh no
[7:41:54 PM] <IownU> i don't
[7:41:55 PM] <Charmides> unless you edit out everything i said
[7:41:56 PM] <Charmides> lol
[7:42:00 PM] <Charmides> i dont want to be on wiki
[7:42:09 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> if I remove your name?
[7:42:22 PM] <Charmides> i spose.  RD was the one saying anything important
             anyways
[7:42:27 PM] <IownU> there's only 1 rule in TA
[7:42:28 PM] <Charmides> just delete me from all of it  :)
[7:42:37 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> the questions are important for context
[7:42:37 PM] <IownU> DON"T STOP BUILDING
[7:42:44 PM] <Charmides> gah dammit foe
[7:42:45 PM] <Charmides> lol
[7:42:47 PM] <Charmides> fine whatever
[7:42:51 PM] <IownU> and for that, you need as many cons as you can afford
[7:42:57 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> I'l replace your name with something else
[7:43:02 PM] <Charmides> yay
[7:43:03 PM] <IownU> nerd1 :P
[7:43:07 PM] <FoeOfTheBee
[FD]> heh
[7:43:11 PM] <Charmides> :(
[7:43:12 PM] <Charmides> lol